2010-04-19

Paedophilia and Satanism, (Brain washing?) - Part V (a)

Vatic NoteThis series has a reason for being presented. AS YOU READ BELOW ABOUT THE DEATHS OF INVESTIGATORS ETC, KEEP SENATOR SCHAFFER FROM GEORGIA IN MIND.  Mind control is most effective when done very early in childhood.  After reading this go back in your memory and call up the times that President Bush had called on drugging our children in the schools if they showed any individual actions and thoughts that were out of step with the herd.   Then recall recently a call by the power elite to do predrugging in mass and psychiatrists were used to make that call.   We published just such a call recently.  http://vaticproject.blogspot.com/2010/04/pharma-backed-australian-of-year.html.    Then recall that admissions have arisen that the gitmo prisoners being drugged and tortured and SEXUALLY ABUSED were mostly innocent with absolutely no connection to the CIA's funded and controlled Al Qaeda.  So why keep them and continue to torture and sexually abuse them??? Control is the key.  That abuse in Iraq also included children, remember?  This is way bigger than just sexual perversion.   Once a child is sexually molested he then becomes a molestor in adulthood.   That is why secret societies also have a sexual component to their rituals.   If we don't stop this soon we will lose generations of children to this horror.   Please look at this in that light, its important to the future of our country, society and children. One such investigator below was killed by his plane coming "apart" in mid air over chicago, a favorite method of Mossad. 

Paedophilia and Satanism, The Fabric of the Web - Part V (a)
by David Icke
April 5, 2010

This is a newsletter I wrote some weeks ago that I am now releasing to a wider audience because of its fundamental relevance to current events.

Please circulate far and wide. This is the link to send …

http://www.davidicke.com/articles/child-abuse-mainmenu-74/31148-paedophilia-and-satanism--the-fabric-of-the-web
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I have had countless surprises and many shocks as I have lifted the stone and seen what horrors lie beneath, but few more than the scale of child abuse and Satanism.

And that's the word - scale. The fact that it is happening is one thing, but to realise how widespread and fundamental it is to establishment power all over the world was truly shocking.

I have talked with people in the best part of 50 countries in my research of this subject, the abused, the insiders who know the abusers, and those who have dedicated their lives to exposing this evil.

Put it all together and the situation is as clear as can be: paedophilia and Satanism are the cement that hold the establishment control structure together in every country, and these 'national' networks connect together to form a global network of paedophiles and Satanists all watching each others' backs - while they continue to serve the Control System.

If anyone wants to get out or refuses to take orders they know the consequences - 'suicide' or exposure.

Governments around the world are being controlled by the bloodline cabal via paedophile and Satanist politicians and 'leaders' who dare not resist the demands of the Shadow People who have the evidence that would destroy them.

A few weeks ago a document came to light in Australia purporting to be a 'death bed confession' by a leading Satanist from the 'top' coven/lodge in Sydney. It certainly rang true because what it said is supported by my 15 years research into these matters. It said:

'Politicians are introduced by a carefully graded set of criteria and situations that enable them to accept that their victims will be, "Our little secret". Young children sexually molested and physically abused by politicians worldwide are quickly used as sacrifices. In Australia the bodies are hardly ever discovered, for Australia is still a wilderness.'

In more crowded locations the Satanists and paedophiles (the two networks are fundamentally connected) have crematoria to 'lose' the evidence of child sacrifice and murder.

People don't realise how organised it all is. Satanists and paedophiles (and those doing their bidding in pursuit of power, money and sheer survival) are placed in the key public offices to hide their activities. I am talking presidents and prime ministers, too.

Ted 'child killer' Heath

I have been naming the former British Prime Minister, the now late Ted Heath, since 1998 to be a child-killing paedophile Satanist and, in terms of his 'high-office', he is far from a rarity (see article below this one). I know others, including one who spent a long time in that position.

These networks control governments, national and local, 'law' offices, police, courts, coroners' offices, crematoria, social services, law firms and so on, and they have their own doctors and pathologists to ensure when necessary that they can cover up how people have truly met their fate.

Every time I have investigated, or read about the investigations of others, the same blueprint is there to see. Children are supplied for prominent members of 'society' through children's homes and other sources and should they and their families seek to expose what has happened they are met with a wall of resistance from police, social services and the court system.

The former Nebraska state senator, John W DeCamp, famously uncovered a paedophile ring in Omaha involving establishment figures and leading US politicians while he was investigating the financial fraud of a top Republican called Lawrence King who ran the Franklin Community Federal Credit Union in Omaha.

King sang the national anthem at the Republican conventions in 1984 and 1988, but he was doing more than that. He was supplying children for politicians and others at the conventions and elsewhere.

The truth began to emerge from the late 1980s and even made some major newspapers, especially the Washington Times which ran a story that implicated the Reagan-Bush regime.

The mention of Father Bush is especially significant because I have been naming him in my books and on radio for years as a serial paedophile, child torturer and killer. I said it on a live BBC radio programme once, actually twice, and this fact appeared in some national newspapers.

The papers wrote the story in a ridiculing way because they are, well, pathetic, and not one of them came to me and said 'tell me more'. Meanwhile, as the 'intellectual' prostitutes focus on tits, celebrities and fake scandal, the children go on being abused, tortured and murdered on a staggering scale.

President George H W Bush - child abuser, torturer and killer.

The US government mind and sex slave, Cathy O'Brien, exposed Bush and many others in her book, Trance-Formation of America. Here she describes what Bush did on a regular basis to her daughter, Kelly:

'Kelly's bleeding rectum was but one of many physical indicators of George Bush's pedophile perversions. I have overheard him speak blatantly of his sexual abuse of her on many occasions. He used this and threats to her life to "pull my strings" and control me.

The psychological ramifications of being raped by a pedophile President are mind shattering enough, but reportedly Bush further reinforced the traumas to Kelly's mind with sophisticated NASA electronic and drug mind-control devices.

Bush also instilled the "Who ya gonna call?" and "I'll be watching you" binds on Kelly, further reinforcing her state of helplessness. The systematic tortures and trauma that I endured as a child now seem trite in comparison to the brutal physical and psychological devastation that George Bush inflicted on my daughter.'

What has happened to Cathy and her daughter, Kelly, would be horrific enough if it was a one-off, the result of one sick and depraved man, but this is happening daily all over the world to enormous numbers of children.

Wherever you are in the world reading this newsletter - your country's political-intelligence-military network is doing exactly the same.

You don't hear about it, except through those willing to investigate without fear of the consequences, because of this 'wall' I talked about. The system slams the door by refusing to investigate and prosecute; by making sure 'investigations' that are started never get anywhere; by threatening, even killing, the people seeking justice; and by threatening those few in the mainstream media who are willing to handle the story.

John W DeCamp details in his book, The Franklin Cover-up: Child Abuse, Satanism, and Murder in Nebraska, how the Satanist-paedophile ring included those who controlled the government, police and media in Omaha and thus the 'wall' was in place to stop justice. Most of the small fry are also protected because their prosecution could lead to the 'big fry'.

Part of the paedophile-Satanist blueprint includes 'convenient' deaths and the media suddenly withdrawing from an investigation. Both happened in the Franklin case.

A special Nebraska state legislative committee was eventually assigned to investigate the abuse allegations and private detective, Gary Caradori, was hired as lead investigator. He seems to have been a genuine man determined to find the truth, but he was killed during his investigation when the small plane he was piloting broke up in mid-air over Illinois.

The British television company, Yorkshire Television, made a 56-minute documentary about the Lawrence King scandal called Conspiracy of Silence that was also due to go out on the Discovery Channel. Then, at the last moment, the programme was pulled and all copies were ordered to be destroyed. At least one wasn't, however, and you can see it at the end of this article.

All of this brings me to the story that I and others have been working on with avengeance - the case of the Down's Syndrome girl, Hollie Greig. It is a classic of its kind and once again the blueprint for all to see.

Hollie lived in Aberdeen in the Grampian region of Scotland, an area notorious for Satanism and child abuse. Scotland as a whole is a global centre for these abominations and they connect into many of the aristocratic Scottish families going way back.

Scotland - one of the global centres for paedophila and Satanism

The biggest secret society in the world is not called the Scottish Rite of Freemasonry for nothing. The Knights Templar remerged out of Scotland after they were purged in France in 1307 - that's how far the Scottish connection to this goes back. In fact, even beyond that.

Whenever you investigate paedophilia and Satanism, you will find that Freemasonry and/or other secret societies eventually come up. Every time. So it is with the Scottish paedophile-Satanism ring that goes into the 'heart' (wrong word) of the Scottish and British governments.

If you want to find a nest of paedophiles and Satanists look no further than the British establishment and the Houses of Parliament. The same goes for Scotland, the United States - everywhere.

This is one major reason why the paedophile-Satanist-controlled system has to ignore or intimidate any child and family that seek to expose the perpetrators of abuse - they are terrified of where it could lead should the dominoes start to fall.

This was especially so when a Freemasonic paedophile called Thomas Hamilton walked into Dunblane Primary School in Scotland and shot dead 16 children and a teacher on March 13th 1996.

Hamilton should not have had a gun licence because his mental state and paedophile tendencies were known to police, but his Freemasonic and political contacts ensured that it was granted. When you procure children for the establishment elite, as Hamilton did, you tend to have friends in high places.

A massive cover-up followed and documents relating to the case were ordered to be locked away for 100 years. Just a coincidence, nothing to worry about.

The paedophile-satanic rings operate within Freemasonry, like a secret society within a secret society, and most Freemasons, even some high ones, don't know what is going on.

In fact, it was a former Scottish Freemasonic Grand Master, Lord Burton, who said that the official 'inquiry' into the Dunblane massacre, conducted by the Scot, Lord Cullen, was a cover-up.

Lord Burton told the media that Cullen's inquiry suppressed crucial information to protect high-profile legal figures who belonged to a 'Super-Mason' group called the Speculative Society. Lord Burton said:

'I have learned of an apparent connection between prominent members of the legal establishment involved in the inquiry, and the secretive Speculative Society. The society was formed in Edinburgh University through Masonic connections so I accept that there might be a link by that route.'

Members of the Speculative Society have included Lord Cullen and a number of other judges, sheriffs and advocates, plus, it is reported, the former British government minister and Secretary-General of NATO, Lord Robertson, who knew Thomas Hamilton. Lord Burton, of course, was subjected to the usual dismissal, condemnation and threats for demanding action.

Hollie Greig and her mother, Anne, have seen at close range over many years how the system closes ranks to protect its own - paedophiles and Satanists - at the expense of justice for appallingly abused children.

Hollie had been sexually abused by her father, Denis Charles Mackie, and by many others in the ring for more than a decade before she told her mother. This happened when Anne took Hollie away from the family home because of Mackie's violence.

Hollie said she had not said anything before because her father had threatened to kill her pet dog and her mother if she did. Down's Syndrome children are particularly sought after by some paedophiles and Satanists - it's a way they get their 'kicks'. The 'confession of a Satanist' document says:

'Any form of bizarre sexual congress is explored and encouraged because atrophied tastes need stronger stimulation. Children, the elderly, the mentally retarded and desperate are used at satanic ceremonies throughout the world. The left hand path caters for all tastes and responds to all needs. In Australia and throughout what used to be the Soviet Union, Downs Syndrome pornography is an expanding market and an acquired taste.

Approximately one new DVD - like The Gangbang of Mary Mongoloid Series (1998-2001) or Downer Syndrome Follies I-II (2001-2003) - hits the underground market every couple of months.'

These are the people running our world. It's about time they weren't.

Hollie and her mother went to the police to report her abuse and the people she had named. These included a Scottish sheriff (a top judge), senior police officers, lawyers, a fire officer, accountant, nurse and social workers. She said that the rapes happened at the perpetrators' homes and inside a temple of the Scottish Rite of Freemasonry.

What most people don't know is that Down's Syndrome people make excellent witnesses because they tell it like it is and, in effect, don't have the ability to spin a story that isn't true.

Once again the 'wall' went up. The Grampian police refused to investigate and, when pressed into some sort of 'action', refused to investigate in anything, but name.

Then there is the story of Elish Angiolini, who was Procurator Fiscal in Aberdeen while Hollie was seeking justice. The Procurator Fiscal is basically the law officer in the Grampian region who decides if a prosecution will go ahead.

Angiolini has claimed that she wasn't Procurator Fiscal at the time of the case, had nothing to do with it and didn't remember it. Official paperwork shows otherwise on all counts. How would you not be aware, massively aware, that one of your sheriffs was being accused of the serial rape of a Down's Syndrome girl??

Angiolini's Procurator Fiscal office decreed that there was not enough evidence to pursue a prosecution in the Hollie case and this was despite the fact that there was a lot of evidence and the people named by Hollie, and other victims she also named, were never interviewed by the police.

Interestingly, a strange story appeared in the Daily Telegraph newspaper during Angiolini's tenure in Aberdeen in 2001 - 'Procurator apologises to girl, 10 in sex case'. It told of how her office had written to another girl who had claimed to have been sexually abused to 'apologise' for the 'incompetence' that stopped the case going ahead.

Angiolini's office took so long to process the case - the best part of three years - that it was thrown out by a sheriff for taking too long to get to court. Who was this sheriff? The one named by Hollie Greig as one of her primary abusers.

The Daily Telegraph also reported at the time that 'This week it also emerged that a case of a seven-year-old boy who was allegedly raped had collapsed because of delays in bringing it to court in Aberdeen'.

Elish Angiolini was appointed Lord Advocate, Scotland's top law officer, by the Scottish Parliament on October 5th 2006 and in December 2009 she decided again that in her new capacity there would be no prosecution against the people named by Hollie Greig.

Come on Lord Advocate - do something.

A refusal to investigate or prosecute is a theme that runs through this whole case. Hollie's uncle, Robert 'Roy' Greig, her mother's brother, died mysteriously in an alleged, repeat alleged, car fire in 1997 while Hollie was still being abused.

There were extreme inconsistencies in witness statements and the circumstances involved, but the Crown pathologist said that Robert Greig died of 'smoke inhalation' and no inquest was ever held.

After a battle over many years, Hollie's mother and her supporters secured a copy of the post mortem and it showed that Robert Greig had suffered serious blows to the head along with a broken breastbone and two broken ribs. The injuries were consistent with being hit with a pickaxe handle.

Alcohol had been forced down his throat - whisky, a drink he hated - and then he was thrown into the blazing car. Robert Greig had clearly been murdered and yet there was no police investigation by the deeply corrupt Grampian police.

Hollie told her mother that Robert Greig had walked in while her father was having sex with her and a big row had broken out. It would also appear that one of the people who 'found' the blazing car was known to Hollie's father.

Hollie and her mother were subjected to threats and intimidation after they reported the case, including a group from a psychiatric unit turning up at their door, grabbing Anne, injecting her, and taking her away in a failed attempt to have her held in a mental institution.

As a result of this they fled to England. Think about that. A Down's Syndrome girl and her mother have to flee from Scotland to get away from these brave men and women of the Scottish establishment. You are pathetic, ladies and gentlemen, truly, truly pathetic.

Hollie and Anne were given tremendous support in England by a journalist and broadcaster called Robert Green who has been superbly compiling the evidence and applying the pressure on the sick and sad Scottish establishment in all its forms.

The BBC approached them to do a documentary on the case for BBC Scotland, BBC Radio Scotland and the BBC flagship current affairs programme, Panorama. Everything was going well and the main reporter said that they had also uncovered other cases of paedophilia in Scotland. Well, there's no shortage of it.

Then, suddenly, the reporter called and said the programme was being pulled. He said they had been threatened and could do no more on the Hollie Greig case, or any other paedophile investigation in Scotland. If they did, the three BBC staff involved would be sacked.

Robert Green plans to stand for Parliament in the Grampian 'capital', Aberdeen, this year on the single issue of the Hollie Greig case. In February he went to the city to continue his campaign to win justice for Hollie, but he was arrested by the Grampian police.

Colin McKerracher, the Chief Constable of Grampian police, the force which failed to investigate Hollie Greig's abuse, but then arrested Robert Green for trying to do what the police should have done, is ... wait for it ... Chairman of the North East of Scotland Child Protection Committee!!

Why would someone act like this in relation to the Hollie Greig case and Robert Green and be a top name in 'child protection'? Maybe you can work it out. I have.

When we heard of what had happened to Robert Green, I and websites like the UK Column, which has been following this story closely, began to encourage people to ring or email the Grampian police headquarters demanding to know what was happening to him.

Apparently, every time they put the phone down it rang again over a whole weekend. This is important because the thing these people fear above all else is publicity and public awareness. They have already had far more than they want and they are going to get plenty more - whatever they do.

Robert was charged with a 'breach of the peace', which is applied so widely in Scotland that you can basically use it for almost anything. The police and government law office even held the hearing in private in a small-town court 15 miles from Aberdeen where it should normally have taken place. No public or press were allowed.

Such is the level of corruption and terror of the playground bullies of the Scottish establishment cabal. Like all bullies, they have balls the size of peanuts. Robert was bailed to appear again and a gagging order was imposed to stop him repeating the names and evidence surrounding the Hollie Greig case.

His home in England was also raided at the same time by police who would rather harass a decent man seeking justice for an abused Down's Syndrome girl than investigate what happened to her. Trying to destroy the evidence, eh, chaps? You have no shame.

The UK Column has received a series of threats from a major Scottish law firm called Levy and McRae for what they have posted about Hollie and Robert.

They say they represent the Lord Advocate, Elish Angiolini, and threaten action if she is connected with the Hollie Greig case. But she was Procurator Fiscal in Aberdeen when the Hollie case was running and now she is the top law officer in Scotland, so how can you not??

Don't be silly.

It is reported that the Scottish mainstream media (see under 'gutless') have been warned in similar terms and that Google has been contacted.

One letter by Levy and McRae to the UK Column also makes reference to Sheriff Graeme Buchanan, who was named by Hollie Greig, so presumably they must represent him, too.

The lawyer at Levy and McRae sending out the warning letters is one Peter Watson, their head of litigation, who represented the families of those killed by Thomas Hamilton at Dunblane in 1996 and is said to have played a 'key role' in the Tribunal of Inquiry under Speculative Society member, Lord Cullen. Watson, like Cullen, studied law at Edinburgh University.

Watson also represented the victims' families in the 'inquiry' into the Lockerbie plane bombing for which a Libyan was jailed to cover up the fact that American, British and almost certainly Israeli intelligence were the real perpetrators.

Watson played the same role in the 'inquiry' into the Piper Alpha oil rig disaster, another 'inquiry' headed by Speculative Society member, Lord Cullen.

Edinburgh and its university, especially the law department, come up again and again. British Prime Minister Gordon Brown was a student and Rector there, while his predecessor, Tony Blair, was born in the city and his father studied law at Edinburgh University.

The current Scottish 'Justice' Secretary, Kenny MacAskill, is a former lawyer with Levy and McRae, and yet another who studied law at Edinburgh University.

MacAskill's response to demands for action over the Scottish establishment paedophile ring has been to make additions to legislation passing through the Scottish Parliament that would effectively gag anyone seeking to win justice for Hollie Greig and other abused children when his government and the police refuse to investigate.


He says: 'Stalking can be a deeply frightening crime for victims'. Yes, mate, Robert Green can tell you that after he was stalked by your pathetic government law office and the Grampian police - but the multiple rape of children is rather worse.

Why is it not being investigated by either your government or the Grampian police? Why is a blatant murder connected to the case being covered up and not investigated by the Grampian police?

What is your response to these legitimate questions, Mr 'justice' man? Shut them up. What a bloody disgrace.

MacAskill was in the news in August 2009 for releasing Abdelbaset Ali al-Megrahi, the official Lockerbie 'bomber', on 'compassionate grounds' because he was said to have only weeks to live (he's still alive at the time of writing). President Obama reacted with fake horror that MacAskill would do this given that 189 Americans died at Lockerbie.

I would suggest, however, that the real reason that Abdelbaset Ali al-Megrahi was suddenly released had nothing to do with 'compassion' - these people have none - and Obama well knew that.

He was due to have a second appeal heard in 2009 that his lawyers said would demolish the official story of Lockerbie. Among their evidence was:

Vital CIA documents relating to the Mebo timer that allegedly detonated the Lockerbie bomb - documents which had been withheld from the defence team.

Tony Gauci, chief prosecution witness at the trial, was alleged to have been paid $2 million for testifying against Megrahi.

Edwin Bollier, the owner of Mebo, said that in 1991 the FBI offered him $4 million to testify that the timer fragment found near the scene of the crash was part of a Mebo MST-13 timer supplied to Libya.

Ulrich Lumpert, a former employee of Mebo, swore an affidavit in July 2007 that he had stolen a prototype MST-13 timer in 1989, and had handed it over to 'a person officially investigating the Lockerbie case'.

Abdelbaset Ali al-Megrahi abandoned his appeal that would have brought all this evidence and more to light as part of the deal for his release on 'compassionate grounds'. Wheels within wheels within wheels. 'Compassion' my arse.

So there we have it. What has happened to Hollie Greig and everything that surrounds her case is a story I have seen repeated all over the world so many times and I am not letting this one drop. It has the potential to open a can of worms that will engulf British politics and beyond. So it should.

Justice for Hollie. Justice for all the children.


The article is reproduced in accordance with Section 107 of title 17 of the Copyright Law of the United States relating to fair-use and is for the purposes of criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research.

13 comments:

Magistra_Y said...

The Church of Satan is the only legal religious body in America that has reported to/assisted with authorities and excommunicated members for crimes against women and children. While other churches and organizations merely moved clergy or hid the truth, the Church of Satan called the FBI and publicly terminated any who'd violate the Satanic rule to NEVER harm children.
So, why are you ignoring the fact that Satanists bravely stand against religious abuse, and confusing the Christian heresy of devil worship (because only Christianity has a bible sick enough to endorse pedophilia,) with Satanism?

Magistra Ygraine
Church of Satan

Vatic said...

If what you say is true, then what are these people worshipping? What do you worship? What is the difference between them and your organization? Do you believe evil is good? Lots of questions, but fascinating differences you point out.

Anonymous said...

I have been aware of these phedopelia rings for quite some time.What behooves me is why people do not do anything about it.The Bush family is evil to the core and I hope all this comes out to the public one of these days.

Anonymous said...

Where is the link to the documantary on child prostitution?

Vatic said...

I know what you mean, but remember, the press has been purchased by those that rule as disinformation, hiding truth etc are the very reasons they bought the press. Until you can free it up, we will not have any justice.

What we have is anarchy at the top and its evidence by the condition of this nation at this point in time. THESE ARE THE PEOPLE WHO WANT TO RUN THE GLOBE???? I DON'T THINK SO, NOT IF YOU WANT THE GLOBE TO SURVIVE. They are totally and surprisingly incapable of such high level responsibility.

These are people who have created nothing, who invent nothing, who produce nothing, except evil and how to illegally extract the produced capital from others creative, inventive and capital producing genius.

Vatic said...

anonymous, sorry for taking so long to get back to you, but I am sure you can imagine the time and work that has gone into this project and responding and reverifying and providing the links etc...

Here is the link to your request about the pedophilia in Washington DC.

Bush Child Sex Coverup

Vatic said...

For some reason that link won't work and I apologize for that. It worked when I put it up. Here is the link and if it does not go live simply cut and paste it into the window.

http://vaticproject.blogspot.com/2010/04/paedophilia-and-satanism-fabric-of-web.html

Magistra_Y said...

"If what you say is true, then what are these people worshipping? What do you worship? What is the difference between them and your organization? Do you believe evil is good? Lots of questions, but fascinating differences you point out."

True Satanists practice study, not worship, and the closest thing we come to worshiping is our own lives.

WE believe evil is perception. I find it evil that a religion would "spare the rod and spoil the child," or the belief that an unbaptized baby will burn for eternity. I find it evil to forgive a child molester. Others find me evil for not believing in or kneeling before God.

Those who you believe are Satanists are merely Christian heretics. They are products of your mythology, not ours. They worship a devil created by Judeo-Christianity. We think the need for all these things are silly and irresponsible.

brussellsprout said...

I was born into a satanic cult, sold to the CIA by my Masonic father and used in Project Monarch. After I broke away from my programming, I was targeted for destruction. Since 2004, I've been subjected to gang stalking, 24-hour satellite surveillance with through-the-wall technology, a vicious slander campaign, poisoning of my food and drinks, and much, much more. It's all spelled out on my blog at www.brussellsprout.blogspot.com

Carl said...

satanists don't believe that lying is bad when necessary. Who are they trying to bs?

Vatic said...

Carl, Themselves I bet. The Talmud also has a section in there that you will be forgiven if you had to lie, cheat or steal from a goyim during the year. Wipe the slate clean and move onto the next one.

deborahannek said...

Come soon Lord Jesus and send the evil to the place prepared for them.

Vatic said...

I say "Amen" to that. And we don't know the half of it given how much has come out that we had no clue about. I can't imagine and I am not sure I even want to know the rest of it, this is bad enough.